#101 Fireside Chat: Leftovers Monday 01 April, 2013

“Leftovers”

Miss Episode 101 live on Monday night? Click here to listen to the recording or use the embedded player below.

ANNOUNCEMENT: At some point on Tuesday afternoon, the Capitol hacked into our Fireside Chat databases and erased the last 30 minutes of this episode because they believed our Rebel Wilson discussion was actually about a rebel named Wilson. We have not yet found a way to recover the lost audio, so our conversations about Jennifer Lawrence’s TIME 100 nomination and the representation of Victor’s Village in The Hunger Games Adventures are, sadly, lost forever. 🙁

Episode 101 of Hunger Games Fireside Chat will air live this Monday, April 1, at 10pm ET/7pm PT! This week, our panel of experts will include Ellie from Down with the Capitol, Crystal of Mockingjay.net and FictionalFood.net, Rebekah of Victor’s Village, Bailey of Hunger Games Network, and Ariel of Nerdy, Wordy, and Over Thirty!

– We’ll kick things off by answering the rest of the questions you submitted last week about us, the show, etc.

– We’ll also briefly chat about our 100 Things to Do Before Catching Fire video and the 100th Episode Celebration Giveaway that we’re currently running.

– We’ll go on to discuss some random “news-but-not-really-news” items: Rebel Wilson’s possible Mockingjay role, Willow Shields’ pronunciation of Johanna’s name, the appearance of Victor’s Village in The Hunger Games Adventures*, and the possibility of Jennifer Lawrence being included on the TIME 100 list (you can vote for her here).

*Update: Click here for the photos of the furniture piece that The Hob posted in August 2012. And click here to see that same furniture piece in The Hunger Games Adventures!

You can chat with other listeners throughout the live show by using our hashtag #HGFiresideChat on Twitter! We recommend TweetChat to easily follow along with the conversation.

(If you missed our last episode, click here to listen!)

And click here for an index of all of our archived episodes.

Follow this week’s participants on Twitter:
Adam (Host): @AdamSpunberg
Savanna (Co-Host/Producer): @MlleNouveau
Ellie: @MuchMoreMacho / @HungerGamesDWTC
Crystal: @pikko / @mockingjaynet / @FictionalFood
Rebekah: @Rebekahdg / @VictorsVillage
Ariel: @Madam_Pince
Bailey: @RosieHathaway / @hungergamesnet


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9 Comments

  • Gregory says:

    I really think Rebel Wilson is going to play Fulvia Cardew. In her interview she said that she’s in talks to play a “Capitol person”, so Delly Cartwright is out. I don’t think she’ll play Tigris since they’ll probably film the earlier parts of Mockingjay first, where Fulvia appears more frequently. I also don’t think Rebel will play Cressida since I’m not sure if she wants to run around with a TV crew in a bombing considering her weight. (My apologies if that sounded rude!)

  • Sym says:

    Did Willow pronounce it weird?

  • Annie B says:

    I think there is a strong possibilty of Rebel playing Fulvia Cardew, or maybe one of the other Capitol Escorts. I think it would be really cool to see her in the movie, not to mention the extended amount of fans that would be brought in from her Fanbase.

    Willow Pronounces Johanna the same way I do, so that got me pretty excited. And slightly off topic I love Johanna’s nail braclet from the Promom poster, when I described Johanna in my head I described her as Tough as Nails so I thought that was coincidental.

    I am really loving the way victors village is looking, it makes me really excited to see it in the movie. The only problem that I have is that the outer apperance seems to lack luster so to speak. Its a capitol built place I expected it to be more exuberant and colorful and less graveyard like. But, outside of that I really liked it!!!

  • I wasn’t “team” anything, but I thought it was really obvious that Katniss was in love with Peeta throughout Mockingjay, so much that it never occurred to me that it could be seen differently until I started reading other fans’ opinions online. And when I’m re-reading it, I still feel the same as I did the first time.

    It’s impossible to make yourself not be in love with someone, even if it was what she “decided”. I’m sure it would have been much easier for her if she could and that she probably wished he didn’t love him, but emotions don’t work that way. And even if it is, that wouldn’t be the case here. When Peeta was hijacked, she felt and behaved as someone who’s completely heartbroken, not being able to stand being close to him because it was so painful (and trying to run away from it, first to District 2, than to Capitol), while secretly crying in the closet; keeping Peeta’s pearl; dreaming (literally) of him sleeping beside her and whispering “Always”, or about looking for him desperately in the woods but not being able to find him because his hand would disintegrate when she would hold it. I really can’t see her as “not caring”. Throughout all of that, she thought how she missed and appreciated the old Peeta and wished he could be the same again, but she kept telling herself it was hopeless – even though her heart still fluttered with hope when she heard he was getting better. Then she would fall back into hopelessness, since she’s pessimist afraid of hoping and having her hopes dashed – and at the time she was also suffering from depression, guilt and self-loathing that made her think all the awful things he said about her were true. She was in that state where she didn’t see any future and was consumed with revenge and a death wish, intending to kill Snow and die. She even sewed Peeta’s pearl in the fabric of her outfit when she was about to go to the Capitol mission.

    Sure, she did the old Katniss thing of trying to act “strong” and unaffected by emotion in front of others – just like she thought she had to do in the Games – and tried to convince everyone that she would be able to kill him because he “wasn’t Peeta anymore”. Then, when Haymitch found a way to get to her through the tactic that I think he knew would work best with her, guilt-tripping her and appealing to her “What would Peeta do” sense, she admitted to herself that she had no idea how to help him and felt “useless”. I’ve seen so many people criticize Katniss for not helping Peeta’s recovery before the mission, but she really felt powerless and didn’t know how to help him – for once, it was not a physical danger or physical injury that she could save him from – and nobody else in District 13 seemed to think Katniss would be able to do something positive for his recovery, either; not the doctors, not Haymitch, who only made her try to help him when Peeta was with the Star Squad, away from the doctors or old friends like Delly that he had no disturbing fake memories of, and it was a dire “kill or be killed” situation for him and Katniss.

    And then there’s the entire remainder of the Capitol mission. As that poignant scene when she starts listing the little everyday things about him: “You’re a painter. You’re a baker. You like to sleep with the windows open. You never take sugar in your tea. And you always double-knot your shoelaces” and then runs away to her tent so she wouldn’t cry. Then the way she strokes her hair and tells him “That’s what we do. We protect each other”, the kiss and “Stay with me” exchange, and the fact it’s Peeta’s good opinion that she needs and that is the only thing that convinces her to keep going; even though Gale and the rest of her team members have already told her they believed in her. (Even though Peeta is still more or less insane by that point and handcuffed so he wouldn’t try to kill her again.) As they say goodbye, she hugs him and is overcome by memories: “A thousand moments surge through me. All the times these arms were my only refuge from the world. Perhaps not fully appreciated then, but so sweet in my memory and now gone forever.” Even by that point, Katniss apparently still thought that Peeta was lost to her, and I don’t think she believed he would come back to her, until he appeared in front of her house in District 12, without the “clouded, tortured look in his eyes” and planted the primroses. And it’s Peeta’s return that wakes her from her numbness and gives her the will to start living again.

    • Cassie says:

      You took the words right out of my mouth. When everybody was talking about how Katniss never showed proof of loving Peeta, I was just thinking of all the many many times that she did show she loved him. Yes, the words I love you never came out of her mouth, but actions speak louder than words. Her thoughts were always on him. And I always thought it was really clear that she loved him in those times when they were apart, because she was always thrown into such a state of depression, much like her mother was when Mr Everdeen died. Perhaps I am wrong, but I never doubted her love for him. Maybe,because I can relate to her in not being very outwardly showing of my emotions, and have always had a hard time saying things like I love you. Some just aren’t good at outwardly showing their feelings, but luckily we had Katniss’s inner dialogue.

    • Satsuma says:

      I agree with timetravelingbunny’s take on this; though I do admit having some moments of doubt when I was first wading into MJ discussions and was confronted by the “Katniss either didn’t love Peeta in MJ, or was cruel and abusive to him and didn’t deserve him” crowd. It seems readers who have this view don’t realize that Katniss is NOT a reliable narrator, and her statements are often contradictory. For all her talk of “accepting that Peeta will never come back to me”, and “I wrote Peeta off in Two”, when it comes to her shining D2 moment of using words, not weapons, to win D2 over to the rebel cause, she’s hoping Peeta is watching, and seems to forget that “old Peeta is gone”.

      I will say, though, that while I am certain SC’s intent was for Katniss to be in love with Peeta by the end of CF, and to continue to be in love from that point on, that I had a bit of an issue with the whole idea of “falling into deep depression” upon the loss of a lover (or family member) as proof that you love that person. Because that seems to imply that if you DON’T fall into a deep depression after being widowed, or having a family member die, that means you didn’t really love them, or didn’t love them enough as a person who DOES get depressed.

      Now, I don’t think SC herself meant to send that message, since Gale shows no signs of falling into a deep depression after losing Katniss, but I think SC did mean for him to sincerely love Katniss, too. Also, Annie seems to react to Finnick’s death, much better than how Finnick reacted to her capture. But Gale’s reaction (or lack thereof) could easily be taken as “proof why Gale didn’t really love Katniss”, and Annie is a fairly minor character, important more as an object of Finnick’s love than anything else (like the details of how her “madness” affected her, what she was like before the Games, etc.), and even if she didn’t love Finnick as much as he loved her, it doesn’t affect the story that much.

      Now, I realize that well-meaning friends and family often pressure a person to “get over” a loss and resume Life As Usual much earlier than they should, and that’s not fair, either. But considering how other YA works *cough* *cough* Twlight *cough* have already touted the idea that if you REALLY love your boyfriend or girlfriend, then breaking up with them SHOULD make you depressed, or that if they die, you SHOULD become suicidal, or that if your love decides to marry someone else, you SHOULD run away from home…I think this Romeo-and-Juliet approach to romance, is NOT healthy at all.

      So, I find it a little disturbing how Peeta-Katniss shippers don’t have much to go on for much of MJ except “Katniss is so torn up about Peeta, this proves she loves him”. Also, it seems to me that many THG fans think Peeta is a “better person” than Katniss, and seem to think that MJ lacks enough proof that Katniss not only loves Peeta, but is “deserving” of him, or is capable of having a healthy, long-term relationship with him. I think some Peeta fans feel that Katniss’s “Real” at the end isn’t enough to “make up” for how horribly she treated him, and I’ve also seen fans accusing her of being selfish, even at the end, “she only loves Peeta because HE makes HER feel better, but doesn’t do anything to make HIM feel better”.

      • I don’t think that anyone is implying that everyone has to fall into depression after the loss of a loved one, or else they don’t really love them. But I do think that the story at the end of Catching Fire and in Mockingjay would make no sense if Katniss didn’t love Peeta. It wouldn’t make sense for her to be torn up about him to that extent. She does feel awful about everyone who died or was tortured, but not to the point of being so broken about it, even when it came to people she did love/care about, like Rue or Cinna. There is also an obvious parallel between Katniss’ depression (first after Peeta’s kidnapping and imprisonment/torture and later after Prim’s death) and her mother’s upon Mr Everdeen’s death, which wouldn’t make sense on either the Watsonian or the Doylist level if one assumed that Katniss doesn’t love Peeta.

        Now, does that mean that everyone has to react that way to loss of a loved one? No. But there are things to keep in mind: first, not everyone is prone to depression in the first place. As far as I know, it’s believed that while major depression may be triggered by traumatic events, some people already may be genetically predisposed to possibly developing major depressive disorder. We know that Mrs Everdeen is clinically depressed – she says herself that it’s an illness treated by medication, which she didn’t have at the time but did later. As much as Katniss would like to think she only has “her father’s blood”, she’s also her mother’s daughter.

        On the Doylist level, it’s hard to think that SC did not intend the parallel between Mrs Everdeen and Katniss. Like you, I believe that one of the reasons Katniss was so adverse to romantic love was a fear of ending up like her mother; that she kind of did “turn into her mother” for a while, but that she finally learned that love can be a positive force rather than just destructive.

        I should qualify this by saying that I think Katniss is a stronger person than her mother, better at being “strong for other people”: at the end of CF, she has been refusing to eat and drink and had lost the will to live, in her own words, but when Gale comes to talk to her, she remembers that she has other people in her life who are “demanding to be acknowledged” and immediately asks about Prim’s and her mother’s safety. She takes at least a few weeks after that to get functional, but she’s trying. I don’t think Katniss would ever allow her family to starve and go unprotected, in however bad shape she was.

        Secondly, there is a very important difference between a loved one dying, and a loved one being kidnapped, tortured, and/or threatened with death. However traumatic the death of a loved one is, it has a finality to it. There is nothing you can do about it, nothing you can do for them (apart from wanting justice or revenge or honoring their memory – but none of those are actually benefiting the dead person, they are all for the benefit of the survivors), so you can think that your loved one is at peace and try to move on with your life. (Which does not necessarily mean, if the dead person was your lover/spouse, that you have to start another romantic relationship, as some people think. It’s not the only way to move on with your life. You can also do that by doing constructive things, doing a job, having meaningful relationships with friends and family, living your life and enjoying it, etc.) Some people may not want to recover, which is their right, but it is somewhat selfish and irresponsible if you are neglecting someone who needs you, such as children. I’m not judging Mrs Everdeen as harshly as many seem to do, since she was too ill, rather than uncaring. But when it comes to “being strong for someone else”, she did fail for a while, while Annie showed more strength that one would have perhaps expected. (At least as far as we know.)

        When it comes to suffering over a breakup, it’s again something completely different – you’re only in pain because of yourself, but eventually you have to accept that the other person does not want to be with you and to respect their wishes.

        But I can’t imagine how anyone could “get over” and “move on” from their loved one being currently in danger or in pain, instead of constantly worrying, hurting at the idea of their loved one’s suffering, wondering how to help them, and feeling terrible for not knowing how. This is exactly why Snow was keeping Peeta and Annie alive rather than killing them. Finnick says one point at the end of CF that it would be better if Annie were dead – if they were all dead, they would not be in this state of constant pain and vulnerability and torture. In her explicit cat metaphor in Mockingjay, Katniss observes that if Buttercup knew he couldn’t get to the light at all, he would calm down and try doing something else, but it’s the insecurity of it all that keeps him constantly agitated and confused. I see no reason to think that Annie’s love for Finnick was lesser than his for her just because she wasn’t such a mess after his death, since Annie’s situation after Finnick’s death was different than his while she was imprisoned: he wasn’t somewhere being tortured and threatened, he was gone and at peace, and all she could so was let him go, be strong for their son and take care of him, and try to honor his memory (and the one thing we heard her say, during the vote, was about that).

        Finally, one has to keep in mind that Katniss has been through many terrible things (and one can say the same about Finnick, and all of them). It seems to me that it would be preposterous to compare someone like Bella Swann becoming depressed and suicidal because her boyfriend left, and Katniss being depressed and torn over the boy she loves being tortured and driven insane, and that’s without even mentioning everything else that she’s been through up to that point, and the fact that the country was at war, people were dying, and she was being manipulated and used by everyone. Accusing Katniss of being weak in Mockingjay would be like saying that the only way to be a strong female fictional character is to have no realistic human emotions. I think that, on the contrary, the fact that she did get through all of it and eventually recovered shows remarkable strength. (Same for Peeta.)

  • Re: the many awards Jennifer has been nominated for – there was several award-related news items last week.

    At Kids’ Choice Awards, The Hunger Games won Favorite Movie and Favorite Book, but Jennifer lost Favorite Actress and Favorite Female Butt-Kicker to Kristen Stewart (!).

    A day after losing at kids’ awards, Jennifer won an award voted by adults – the Empire Award (voted by the readers of that film magazine) for Best Actress – which was unusual for the fact that she was nominated and won for The Hunger Games, rather than Silver Linings Playbook. (She sent a message which was read at the ceremony, since she, of course, couldn’t be there.)

    Remember how I tried to convince you to talk about the genre awards The Hunger Games movie has been nominated for? Well, it’s completed its set of major genre award nominations – after Saturn, Nebula and Bram Stoker Award, it’s also been nominated for a Hugo Award (by the World Science Fiction Society) in the category Best Dramatic Presentation. (They were announced on March 30th). Before that, the movie got nominated for Constellation Awards (Canadian Sci-Fi awards) in two categories: Best Science Fiction Film, TV Movie, or Mini-Series of 2012; and Best Female Performance in a 2012 Science Fiction Film, TV Movie, or Mini-Series.

    Just an idea what you might mention or talk about if you lack subjects the next week. 😉

  • drush76 says:

    Has anyone ever wondered why depression from the loss of a loved one is considered “weak”?


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